Joe Scarborough is a Lying, Chickenhawk Piece of Shit

Joe Scarborough, on whether torture is an effective intelligence gathering tool:

“I do know the answer, and America will know the answer when the documents are declassified. I do know the answer.”

First question: How does Joe know?
If someone is sharing classified information with Joe Scarborough, that would seem to be something folks should look into. That would seem to a be a very serious crime on its face.
Or, perhaps Joe is just blithering to lend weight to his shouting certainty that torture is not really torture (it’s enhanced interrogation); not torture because we do it to our own troops in SERE training; effective at gathering good intelligence; not best suited (or ever employed) for the getting false information, and there are documents that accurately reflect reality demonstrating the unimpeachable truth of it all.

In order:

1. If torture is not really torture – does not really inflict intolerable mental and physical suffering, how can it be effective? If it’s only a few drops of water and having to stand up for a long time, what value is it as in interrogative technique? Took this one first for warm-up swings.

2. We do it to our own troops! It’s been done to Christopher Hitchens – he says it is torture. I’m willing to accept that I can swing a dead cat and strike someone tougher than Chris Hitchens, but the same cannot be said for Jesse Ventura, Navy Seal and SERE school alumnus. He says it’s torture. On this point, Scarborough may now shut the fuck up or accept that any Seal now has the perfect right to punch him in the face on sight.

3. That torture is effective at gathering intelligence – there’s a bit of information that can not be obtained in any other way – is the argument to which Joe most desperately clings.
The most powerful motive for such grasping behavior is that it’s the only argument that cannot logically be defeated.
Could we have gotten the info in some other way?  More or less quickly?
It is impossible to say.
This is very revealing – using an unprovable contention as justification for torture.  On the mere possibility that there might be something, some last little bit of information that might make all the difference…and there’s just no other way to get it – we KNOW he knows SOMETHING! – Joe Scarborough will happily leap four square across the moral line that used to separate Us from Them.
Fuck it.
As between violating domestic and international law, abandoning the very ideas the underpin what it means to be an American, or leaving anything undone (no matter how hideous) in Defense of Amerika, Chickenhawks like Joe Scarborough always choose the sort of sickening false patriotism that justifies something truly ugly.   From McCarthy to Nixon to Bush and Cheney.
It is difficult to find anyone in uniform to stand with him.  It is a simple matter the find those in uniform aligned against him.   This defines the concept of giving proper weight to things.

Joe Scarborough argues that torture is effective. He KNOWS it is.
Odd then, that the most senior intelligence officers involved with interrogations have a differing view. They say, almost without exception, that the best information comes not from torturing but from a variety of other, more effective techniques that more closely resemble TALKING.
Of course, talking to these people (who Joe would argue have been brainwashed to think we are Satan) ain’t gonna get us anywhere.   Joe wants to prove that we are Satan.
The scenario…the hypothetical…on which Joe relies here is disgusting in it’s facile simplicity and utterly revealed by the ease with which it is logically dismissed:   Scarborough and his ignorant ilk yammer about “The Ticking Time Bomb!”
There it is…ticking away in Los Angeles or Miami! … and we have the guy who knows where it is!   Get out the waterboard!  Tick!..tock!..tick!..tock!… (I date myself – that should be a digital timer and they go “beep…beep…beep…”).
Digital or analog, they waterboarded KSM 183 times over A MONTH! How long was that fucking clock set to beep?
If torture is an effective technique, you don’t have to do it the third time, much less the 183rd.   And if you do…if you have to torture someone for a fucking month, then the whole hypothetical upon which you make the disgusting argument falls.

4. Is the information even true?   See Curveball in the run up to the Iraq war for further information.
How many resources are wasted chasing down bullshit sputtered out by some poor bastard so you’ll stop drowning him?
One of Joe’s favorite politicians (birds of a feather) Sen. Lindsey Graham, stated that the reason torture has been around for so long is because it works.
Yes, Senator…it works.   It works like a charm if what you want to do is make someone confess to being A WITCH! And as soon as you admit that you’re in league with the devil, we stop torturing you.  There’s something very consistent about that which I might get into another time – but the clear point remains:   Torture is best suited for getting people to say whatever the hell you want them to say.
I’m a witch!
I’m a heretic!
I accept Jesus Christ as my savior!
Just write it down and I’ll sign it…for God’s sake stop hurting me!
Yes…yes…okay…Saddam Hussein is training jihadists (who really, really hate him) and giving them chemical and biological weapons!

5. There are documents which prove the effectiveness of torture.  Secret documents that show how utterly fucked we would have been if we didn’t torture the evil doers to learn their dark secrets.
Documents written by torturers, following torture directed by Dick Cheney. All we need to see are the declassified documents generated by the people who had been instructed to violate the law by the Commander in Chief.
“Whatcha up to, Frank?”
“Oh, just filling the daily reports.”
“How’d it go?”
“Lotsa screamin’ and cryin’, pain and humiliation. Made a raghead jerk off in front of a snarling dog.”
“Get any good intel?”
“Learned he ain’t all that aroused by dogs.”
“Whaddya puttin’ in the report?”
“Just what the doctor ordered. Discovered a funded attack planned by those Muslim fucks they tailing in Seattle. Some stuff about chemical weapons and anthrax.  Some other stuff…you know the drill.  There was a new memo today – it’s mostly copy and paste.”

It’s by no means only Joe. Quite frankly, the entire mainstream media is demonstrating how incapable of doing their job they are as we speak.
The use of torture to provide false evidence in furtherance of an illegal foreign policy is, I think, a pretty big fucking story.
Cheney should be in solitary confinement somewhere so he can’t communicate with witnesses. George can be left in Crawford – he’s too arrogant to flee, too stupid to lie, and can’t pardon anyone. Rumsfeld can have the cell next to Dick (I doubt either of them know Morse code)…Condi, Feith and Wolfowitz wear ankle bracelets.
Whether or not the CIA lied to Nancy Pelosi may not be yesterday’s news, yet…but it’s sure as hell tomorrow’s cat litter.
There’s no where left to go but down, and once you break ground there’s stopping til you hit bottom.
My money says Dick Cheney faces serious criminal prosecution shortly after midterm elections, and the unraveling of it all ass fucks the GOP.

Here’s Joe being Joe. Fucking dick.


3 Responses

  1. “My money says Dick Cheney faces serious criminal prosecution shortly after midterm elections, and the unraveling of it all ass fucks the GOP.”

    I’ll take that bet.

  2. Great post, man. I don’t think there’s anything for me to add in was of a comment because you said it all so well.

    Oh, I do agree with Sharon though. Sorry, dude, but I’ll take that bet too. They’ll think they have him until he sheds his old snake skin and then they’ll find that the hooks are no longer in his new hide and he’ll just slither away. And the GOP will just keep on being turds and jackoffs, because, frankly, there are enough turds and jackoffs in the general population to give the GOP a solid support base.

  3. Joe Scarborough likes torture because he tortures the American public on a daily basis and gets paid for it.

    “Ticking time bombs” only exist in cartoons and movies where “bad guys” wear top hats and have curly moustaches.

    Such bad guys don’t exist. Only a bunch of rank amateurs would proceed with their plans as scheduled if a member with sufficient knowledge of an operation was snatched up by their enemy. They would either re-schedule, redesign or abort. Any terrorist outfit worth its salt tends to work in compartmentalized cells largely independent from each other to minimize risks of capture. Apparently, Al Qaeda is so decentralized that you could argue it barely exists beyond being an inspirational force to wanna-be jihadists.

    Human beings have an amazing ability to convince themselves that what they are doing is right. Everyone thinks they are the cowboy wearing the white hat fighting the cowboy in the black hat.

    Evil is done by people who rationalize what they do by -say- claiming bad guys are out to get them and that they need to commit some otherwise unacceptable act like -say- torturing people to prevent it from happening.

    Torture is NOT about getting results. Torture is about inflicting pain on others because you want to. You torture because inflicting pain on a person who is at your (lack of) mercy makes you feel good. Any useful information you pick up along the way is just an accidental bonus in the way that you can use it to justify further torture.

    Torture is great at turning even the hardest motherfuckers into pudding. But pudding is a lousy source of information. I wouldn’t trust a thing a pudding tells me.

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