In the Wake of The Boston Bombing

Media is flying with wild speculation about the Tsarnaev brothers. Someone posted some links on FB (reproduced below), supposedly in support of various conspiracy theories. I reproduce my response here:

-snip-

Not sure what you mean when you use the word “verified”.

The Salon bit is good. I don’t think you read it. It has nothing to do with anything else you posted, or it debunks most of the other things you posted…or, at least, provides a convincing argument that many of them are the rantings of a variety of stupid people. Good piece, though.

The Democracy Now interview is also good. It offers no evidence that there is any reason to suppose these two bombers were pawns of the FBI – in any way directed, controlled, incited, influenced or anything else.
The question of how the FBI goes about identifying and preventing terrorist attacks; the means they employ; the ways they may be argued to have engaged in entrapment in other cases is an interesting topic and says a lot about what America has become. In fact, the definition of entrapment was previously addressed in this thread.
In any case, the problem identified by the transcript is that the FBI is setting up innocent people to arrest for plots that don’t exist because the patsy is just some mentally ill individual… or gang of idiots. None of the investigations or arrests described in the interview involved anything that went beyond plotting and/or paying an informant. No bombs went off, no one was shot.
What appears to have transpired in Boston is not that. It’s beginning to look as though it’s just the opposite problem. The FBI missed one. They had a reason to look at this guy – they were ASKED to look at this guy. They LOOKED at this guy. And this guy and his brother blew up the Boston Marathon. They weren’t Saudis, or Yemenis, or Syrians or Lebanese or Egyptian. They weren’t from a place that American foreign policy was directly fkng over…they were from a place that Russian foreign policy had directly fkd over. They flew under the radar.
In any case, it certainly doesn’t even try to make the argument that this was some sort of false flag event.

The Global Research piece is similar to the Democracy Now piece. I agree that there should be no rush to scream RADICAL ISLAM! That is shallow, knee-jerk, often dangerously racist. Once again, it laments true cases where unstable individuals and bumbling idiots were led into ill-conceived plots that did not happen. And that these cases grew out of sending agents provocateurs into Muslim communities to troll for and incite victims.
One supposes the implication here is, at least in principle, to lend credence to the idea that we ought not dismiss allegations that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was such an agent, or under the direction and influence of such an agent.
The only evidence for THAT is the word of the mother, which amounts to little more than a confirmation of the timeline already presented by the FBI, all the facts as we know them, and wild speculation for which there is no evidence, and about which the Global Research article makes no claims.

The MotherJones article only restates what the FBI has already said – they looked at Tamerlan Tsarnaev at the request of a foreign government. They didn’t find anything. The mother’s aforementioned wild speculation, for which there is no evidence beyond her word, is formed into a question and used as the headline for the bit. I find it unsurprising the any news website would publish such a piece, but it doesn’t “verify” anything…well, except that his mother said something.

The photo you posted that reads “Most obvious false flag yet” is pure Alex Jones. There’s never a need to deconstruct Alex Jones. You just have suppose he’s right and it falls apart under its own weight. You previously posted a list of questions in this thread. Perhaps you missed the response.

____

1. why would guilty individuals stay home and wait to be caught?

Because they’re not very experienced at this sort of thing; thought they would never be ID’d / caught. They were barely out of high school, with no military training or criminal backgrounds. Idiots get caught.

2. how did the cops catch em so fast if they didnt know who they were looking for to begin with

Surveillance cameras and a shitload of man hours. Witnesses (including one who lost both his legs) saw them drop the bags and walk away. Photos were released, suspects were identified. After that, it was only a matter of time.

3. suspects mom claims FBI had been watching son for about 3 yrs, since he became religious. how could someone under surveillance pull off such an attack?

What the suspect’s mother says is not a very credible source. “Under surveillance”? There’s no remotely reasonable basis to make that claim.

4. witnesses report bomb drills in athletes village b4 attack

Alex Jones ALLEGES that that there are witnesses who say that. The only person I’ve heard SAY that is Alex Jones. Not credible.

5. search for images of men in cams, with huge backpacks and hats with Craft Int. or Seal team logo on it, watching the whole thing go down calmly…

More Alex Jones.

6. more than half of US terrorism cases have involved entrapment, usualy by FBI, who even admit in court to supplying potential terrorists with bombs/weapons (ie. the fbi plans it, finds someone stupid enuf to do it, then busts them)…

Two competing tests exist for determining whether entrapment has taken place, known as the “subjective” and “objective” tests. The “subjective” test looks at the defendant’s state of mind; entrapment can be claimed if the defendant had no “predisposition” to commit the crime. The “objective” test looks instead at the government’s conduct; entrapment occurs when the actions of government officers would have caused a normally law-abiding person to commit a crime.
Providing someone with materials is not entrapment. If someone approaches an undercover agent asking to get hold of explosives, and the agent provides materials to the suspect, that is not entrapment. Further, if an agent approaches someone and says, “Hey…I have a bunch of explosives. Do you want to blow up a government building?” and the suspect responds, “Fk yeah! Give me the bombs!” THAT ain’t entrapment. It is only entrapment if the suspect would not have engaged in criminal behaviour BUT FOR the actions of the government. Cooking up a plot and waiting to see who wants to play does not qualify.
There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that either of these brothers had any contact with any government agents whatsoever in relation to planning or executing the bombing, or the subsequent running gun battles throughout large chunks of MA.

7. always easier to see a false flag after the event when you find out its objective–there always is one: see if the govt uses this attack as an excuse to: increase security, station active troops on US soil (already happening), us drones in the US (already happening), attack or assassinate someone they blame for being involved in the attack (like they did in yemen after the underwear bomber) or start another war…

If these things – troops operating domestically, drones operating domestically, and killing “enemy combatants” (even American citizens so deemed) in foreign countries – are already happening, why would anyone need a false flag operation in order to do them?
Start another war? With whom? Chechnya? I don’t generally care to quote Paul Fucking Wolfowitz in order to make an argument that has nothing to do with seeing that treasonous piece of shit indicted for war crimes, but there REALLY aren’t any targets in Chechnya.

I would add one small comment to the discussion of entrapment. When an agent of the government provides explosives to someone who is of a mind to use them…it is still NOT entrapment. It does, however, demonstrate a serious lack of good judgment. It would support the argument that the government thus becomes a co-conspirator, but it is not entrapment, per se, if the “patsy” possessed a guilty mind.

Where Tamerlan Tsarnaev got the explosives he used will be a focus of the investigation. I consider the possibility that he got them from an agent of the government a literally incredible allegation.

Salon – How Boston exposes America’s dark post-9/11 bargain

Global Research -The Boston Bombings in Context: How the FBI Fosters, Funds and Equips American Terrorists

Global Research 2 – Mother Says Sons Are Innocent

Democracy Now – “Terrorists for the FBI:” How the FBI Uses Informants to Surveil and Entrap Americans

Mother Jones – Was the FBI Monitoring Boston Bombing Suspects for Years?

8 Responses

  1. A debunker can never sleep.

  2. It is 8:56 p.m. in Chicago, and I’ve worked a really long day. What a great surprise to find (damn, finally) a new post. I’m gonna save this until tomorrow when I’m fully awake.

  3. Good post, glad to read you back in action.

  4. A few long, rambling, thoughts regarding the Boston Bombing:

    1)The reaction For a guy who lives a long way from Seattle, I watch a lot of Seattle news. A week after the bombings, a guy in the Seattle area went on a shooting rampage. http://www.thenewstribune.com/2013/04/23/2568901/it-took-just-10-minutes-for-5.html He blew away his girlfriend and proceeded to go house-to-house firing at everyone he came across. Despite generating an ironically similar body count to the Boston Bombers, not only was this not called terrorism, the story ran for only one day and only in Washington State. Gun violence kills far more Americans every year than terrorism ever will, but that’s considered “just another day at the office”. No live TV feeds. No Wolf Blitzer. No violation of (in this case) 2nd Amendment “rights”. Nor was Seattle put under Marshall Law.

    2)Calling these stupid losers “terrorists” only elevates these guys FAR beyond what they merit. In the process, it encourages other attention seeking losers and devalues actual terrorism committed by actual terrorists. These were simply two angry, young, pinheads who thought it would be cool to blow shit up for the world’s cameras. Instead of playing out their deluded, heroic, murder fantasies via 1st person shooter games, they decided to do it in the real world for the “extra realism”. Unfortunately for them, they forgot that real world attempts at mass killing have real consequences and that you only have one life in First Life. It’s truly amazing how many young pinheads can’t distinguish fantasy from reality anymore.

    Truth is, I went to high school with guys who had FAR more intelligent plans for a wide variety of what today would be called “terrorism”. (Canadian pressure cookers included.) It was basically an unofficial school club. With unfettered access to the school science labs, they most certainly had the knowledge and materials. One guy regularly made homemade bombs and blew them up, usually on school property after hours. I witnessed one explosion that caused a fireball that cleared the 2nd story.

    In those days, Big Brother only existed in the pages of Orwell’s 1984, so none of them were caught. Should they have wanted to attack human targets, it’s very unlikely any of them would have been caught. Aside from the ability to distinguish fantasy from reality, the only real difference between them and these so called terrorists was that my acquaintances had (marginal) respect for human life, if only because everyone had more respect for human life back then. The other difference was that my acquaintances had something to look forward to in life. Today, I have no doubt they’re scientists, engineers, & tech specialists who all earn at least 6 digit incomes and cheer on Big Brother as he seeks out (& sets up?) people doing exactly what they did as teens.

    3)In addition to all the government agencies spying on Americans (& everyone else), there are over 15,000 paid informants spying on their fellow Americans for the FBI alone.
    At what point are we going to admit that the Soviets actually won the Cold War and just tricked us all into thinking we, “The Good Guys”, did? Russia is no longer run by politicians (aka the Dictatorship of the Proletariat), but by a KGB spy turned dictator. The “Land of The Free” uses torture, spies on its citizens, compiles secret files on them and assassinates them without trial, even on American soil (example to be determined). It even uses their own neighbours to inform on them. Say what you like about the Eastern Block, but at least East Germans knew the score. Few of them where stupid enough to believe the party line that the Stasi only went after dangerous enemies of the people.

    4) The Military-Industrial-Security Complex At this point, it’s pretty hard to deny that domestic spying has joined this unholy self-perpetuation machine. It enriches the few at the expense of democracy and the national coffers. Spying on people has quickly become another Holy Sacrament in the Church of America. Its methods and effectiveness are to remain unquestioned and unopposed, unless you’re keen on being singled out for special attention. “Trust us” is all the evidence required to justify it.

    Who knows how many hundreds of billions have been spent by the US government on domestic spying with next to nothing to show for it. I have little doubt it surpasses the amount required to provide all Americans with government run healthcare, or a vastly superior public education system. Most of the results turn out to be vastly over-hyped, or bordering on entrapment. From the ladder climbing bureaucrats, to the private corporations, to the paid informants, the motive to keep the spying behemoth going is as massive as the spying itself.

    Since it’s in the best interest of all involved to generate arrests and the ensuing publicity, the incentive to keep this gravy train going becomes clear faster than you can say “Curveball”. If that means overplaying the threats and setting up moronic, disgruntled, youths probably destined for jail anyway…then so be it. “I gots to get paid, bitches!”

    5)Holy fuck does the Boston PD have some firepower! It wasn’t long ago that the 6 shooter was adequate for policing. The amount of armoured personnel carriers, helicopters with night vision & thermal scanners, military assault weapons, body armour, grenades, etc used to get a couple of kids who were less armed than your average drug dealer was astounding. The Boston PD alone could probably defeat the entire Canadian military. Once again, has America become a paramilitary police state, or what?

    • Just spit-balling, I have 100 ways to shut down travel, commerce and people taking regular showers from Miami to Bangor. Give me six guys, three rental cars, some purple dye, a couple of smoke bombs and a single vial of mean poison – no one leaves their house and the DIY stores are sold out of everything remotely resembling water filters or duct tape.
      IF there are murderous bastids intent on harming America, there are 1000 ways to inflict a shitrain of panic without risk or cost. BUT that ain’t happening. Where are these evil, dedicated terrorists? Why hijack an airplane (difficult) when setting off a chemical bug bomb with [something awful] in it turns any plain old bug bomb dropped anywhere in public into mass panic [simple and risk free]?
      I don’t know what’s really going on, and I do not buy the paranoid Alex Jones crap (which only makes me want to punch Alex Jones in the face repeatedly until he stop burbling)…but something ain’t adding up.

      • Smooth move, Cousinavi. Seeing as the threshold is so fucking low, http://www.propublica.org/article/drone-war-doctrine-we-know-nothing-about you’re probably now on the drone strike list, you dangerous ter-rist, you! (Psst, I await the drone strike myself as I live across the street from a guy who is Eddie Snowden’s doppelganger, if not the original.)

        As for Alex Jones..because I ignore the so-called “news” channels, I have only a mild familiarity with the guy. Mostly from Jesse Ventura’s Conspiracy Theory and the numerous times my web-searches have lead to a story on his website.

        I do know he’s crazy and paranoid. (But these days, if you ain’t paranoid, there’s something wrong with you.) I do know he vastly over-values some things (ie guns), under-values others and that he routinely makes bizarre conclusions, even from accurate information.

        But the one thing I like is that he digs for things that most everybody else ignores. There’s a lot crazy, insane, shit he’s brought up that -even if his conclusions are dead wrong- are things that just prove how crazy a world Prison Planet we live in and how colossally fucked up the priorities of The Powers That Be are.

        Just because he’s a broken clock…etc.

    • 4) The Military-Industrial-Security Complex At this point, it’s pretty hard to deny that domestic spying has joined this unholy self-perpetuation machine. It enriches the few at the expense of democracy and the national coffers. Spying on people has quickly become another Holy Sacrament in the Church of America. Its methods and effectiveness are to remain unquestioned and unopposed, unless you’re keen on being singled out for special attention. “Trust us” is all the evidence required to justify it.

      Very well said and about as concise an analysis of the situation extant as I’ve seen. Were you to have gone on to comment on the Judicial system in this country where 95% of the charged forego trial because they’ve been so overcharged that any attempt at justice will result in years in jail for no good reason, I would have considered your treatise even more engaging. Thanks for your well worded effort.

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